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Post by paulg100 on Feb 26, 2016 12:49:06 GMT
OK thanks Michael it dosent sound as though you have been to obsessive on the wiring which is reassuring for me, the wire from main fuse is already a dedicated circuit on mine so there really should be to much noise but who knows.
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Post by mhensen on Feb 26, 2016 20:45:52 GMT
Something is slowing down the PID loop. Check to see if you have the sensor oversample down to 1 and while testing manually with the buttons, disable the LCD menu (push down the DIP switch "1"). Other things to check is the minimum speed to be set at 1, and keep the PID low like (P 15, I 0, D 0) What is the Max RPM rating of your gearbox? Thanks Thanos max RPM is 23.3.. but now at 50% so it should be 11.6 I will try these settings tomorrow but I think I have played with them before, but I more thinking about that the motors are struggling.. and when going down it has both the weight and the downward rotation of the lever..I think that due to not enough torque if falls through the requested speed and thus tries to recover from that by pushing it back to the position it would be at that particular time.. the gearbox torque goes up to 200nm but that would be on a delta config of the motor, not Star, so I would be on 1/3 of that 200nm I think!!! Thus gravity in combination with the current max torque is the problem?!?
Could this reasoning be valid?
Well tomorrow the electrician should swing by and that would give me 2*16 amps.. so I will then reconfigure the motors to delta.. do I need to autotune again, before I start everything up again?!
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Post by mhensen on Feb 26, 2016 20:48:45 GMT
tronicgr .. Despite the fact that I now have set all motors to delta I still have the same rambling motion down.. I've tried with offline and offline up to 50% and min speed at 1 and pid all over from 9 up to 25.. oversample 1
I guess I am out off luck.. Can I revert the firmware to a 'lower' version? Would that be an option, current version is 2.1B ?! just looking at all options available...:-) Turning a single pot to simulate n offset doesn't create it.. it is like not all motors run simultaneous?!
Here is a video, hard to see all but you can hear it and it is visible.. best seen at 0:30
Am I missing something here.. some setting in the VFD?! I am lost?! standard autotune, the last time without rotation. using autotune data.. Even took my laptop to connect instead of PC..
I guess I will take down the top platform and start again from there and start with just the bare motors and then gradually rebuild it.. although that shouldn't be the problem I think!!
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Post by hexpod on Feb 27, 2016 0:44:14 GMT
tronicgr .. (...) I still have the same rambling motion down..
Please set the online speed to 10% and make a test with thanos 6dof offline plugin.
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Post by vicpopo on Feb 27, 2016 7:24:44 GMT
First there aren't any problems we didn't achieve to solve here .... So don't worry ! ;-) First trying to eliminate possibilites I would say you to not use fabi's software to test the plateform or close it when testing.You can set all parameters on amc manually and can either choose the amc buttons or xsim plugin to move the plateform. Did the movement the same using amc buttons ? So agree with hexpod. Whate are your ramp up and ramp down setup in inverter ? your positionning sensors are the one adviced by Thanos with 180° range of measurements ? Did sensors mounted according the measurement area ? maybe silly questions sorry ;-)
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Post by mhensen on Feb 27, 2016 8:50:48 GMT
First there aren't any problems we didn't achieve to solve here .... So don't worry ! ;-) First trying to eliminate possibilites I would say you to not use fabi's software to test the plateform or close it when testing.You can set all parameters on amc manually and can either choose the amc buttons or xsim plugin to move the plateform. Did the movement the same using amc buttons ? So agree with hexpod. Whate are your ramp up and ramp down setup in inverter ? your positionning sensors are the one adviced by Thanos with 180° range of measurements ? Did sensors mounted according the measurement area ? maybe silly questions sorry ;-) Thanks for reassuring! First I'll set the offline down to 10% I'll install the x-sim + plugin first and do some testing whit that.
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Post by paulg100 on Feb 27, 2016 9:55:15 GMT
Sorry to see you are having these probs micheal I know how frusting it is!!
Another silly question maybe, but are you sure the inverters have factory defaults apart from the settings you changed?
You can run fabi/x-sim/bff with platform on and only 1 motor and vfd powered with no problem so maybe it might be worth doing a factory reset on 1 vfd then programming that and testing with the one motor.
Then you can be sure everything on vfd is as it ought to be without any rogue settings.
one of my new VFD's out of the box did not have factory defaults like the others!!
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Post by mhensen on Feb 27, 2016 11:46:01 GMT
Hmm, thanks Paul.. I give that a try too..
anyway I have isolated 2 motors ( the font ones) so you can see the problem more clearly.. Setting up x-sim was a bit overwhelming, need to check some vids and docs for it
There is no binding on any part.. I used the pushbuttons on PID 15 and speed both at 10% Raised oversampleing up to 6, minspeed at 1
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Post by vicpopo on Feb 27, 2016 12:09:21 GMT
Hi mhensen ,
When I look at your video the jitter not happen from top angle until horizontal arm position .As I wrote maybe check if the 180 ° angle track is'well positionned according the angle arm travel.
edit : you can remove one link between upper and lover plateform or not , and check the voltage on the sensor .You obviously have to measure 0- 5 volt from top postion to low position
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Post by paulg100 on Feb 27, 2016 12:37:28 GMT
"Setting up x-sim was a bit overwhelming, need to check some vids and docs for it"
i used the the xsim 6dof offline plugin, there is no settings it works out of the box.
its in Thanos's dropbox folder, ill email to you incase you cant find.
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Post by mhensen on Feb 27, 2016 14:18:59 GMT
Hi mhensen , When I look at your video the jitter not happen from top angle until horizontal arm position .As I wrote maybe check if the 180 ° angle track is'well positionned according the angle arm travel. edit : you can remove one link between upper and lover plateform or not , and check the voltage on the sensor .You obviously have to measure 0- 5 volt from top postion to low position Thanks vicpopo but I have no clue with what you mean by 'check if the 180 ° angle track is'well positionned according the angle arm travel.' Can you give me more explanation on this.. BTW I did reset all VFD's and for now only set the f002 and f003 to 0.4, and a002 to 1
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Post by hexpod on Feb 27, 2016 14:43:03 GMT
Try to reduce the "Step" to lower values in fabi's configurator.
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Post by mhensen on Feb 27, 2016 16:43:50 GMT
I think I have more problems that makes me thinking that I have made a huge mistake..
After all the resets of the VFD I have the feel I am lacking power.. even with 50kg (that's not me but the basic of the platform + chair I sometimes have to push the platform in position.. With me extra on top + 85 kg.. would be 135 not all motors are getting in the correct position.. Starting to whine loud but can't start turning like they are blocked, and even an overload error on one VFD..
I did the autotune with loads, so that might be the problem, but it also makes me wonder if I am not overloading it all.. I have 0.75KW motors 1350 RPM, with 1/60 gearing. motor rating is 3.25 the levers are 180 .. and this is where I might have been wrong.. the levers are to long ?! or should I reposition the motors closer to each other?! I can cut the lever in 2 and weld those pieces together.. (won't look look nice but the function stays the same).. I should have 200Nm torque on the axle. According to the motor+gear specs
I need to have in the end 160kg in total on the levers.. So what should be theoretically the right lever length?! any advice appreciated!!
I will reset and autotune again tomorrow but then without load and do it with rotation this time, out of time for today:-( BTW. I do autotune with 50Hz input.. Not sure if that would make any difference?!
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Post by hexpod on Feb 27, 2016 20:25:08 GMT
(...) So what should be theoretically the right lever length?! any advice appreciated!!(...)
Please provide:
motor RMS motor peak torque curve. gearbox ratio gearbox nominal and maximal output torque
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Post by vicpopo on Feb 27, 2016 23:11:08 GMT
I re-ask my question : why on your video from 21s to 25s when the arms go down (about 40° angle) there is no jitter ? Why when the arm reach the horizontal position and lower the jitter begins?
You need to have answer to this (for yourself) ? I can't understand or have an explaination for this behaviour .Are you sure that the sensors measure the arm angle movement .You are maybe out of the sensor range when the arm comes on horizontal position !
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