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Post by mhensen on Nov 5, 2015 10:19:31 GMT
Still wondering if my household power outlet (220v, 16Amps fuse) would be able to power 6 VFD's or would I need an electrician to build me a new outlet group with it's own fuse? Just wondering about it ?! I can imagine that you would need to run the sim when the washing machine and dryer are not running?
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Post by tronicgr on Nov 5, 2015 11:19:31 GMT
That depends on the motor power requirements. If you look in the AC motors datasheet you will see how much is the full load current (worst case), which for 1hp motors is usually about 2-3 amps. Of course, using gearboxes not all motors will be under the full load at the same time so 16amp might be enough, but my best guess is that that you will need 25A circuit to avoid tripping fuses from peaks of currents during fast reversing the motors.
Thanks Thanos
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Post by paulg100 on Nov 5, 2015 14:10:00 GMT
The power requirement from data sheets is the 3phase requirement from motor, the single phase side of the VFD appears to be significantly more, this still has me slightly concerned also.
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Post by clyevo on Nov 6, 2015 2:04:35 GMT
The power requirement from data sheets is the 3phase requirement from motor, the single phase side of the VFD appears to be significantly more, this still has me slightly concerned also. what do u mean by "appears to be significantly more"?
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Post by tronicgr on Nov 6, 2015 2:36:46 GMT
Just check the vfd datasheet, then add all the current values together, and divide by 3. That's the rule of thumb I use for load requirements as well. Thanks Thanos
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Post by paulg100 on Nov 6, 2015 7:10:08 GMT
single phase pulls more current than 3 phase as the same given load.
thanks thanos thats very helpful.
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Post by mhensen on Nov 14, 2015 10:49:20 GMT
Sorry guys, I am still not convinced of the ability to run a 6 dof platform in my own home. I am located in the Netherlands and my fuse for the group is 16A. The main fuse, at entry of the house is 40A this splits up in several groups of 16A.
I try to figure out if I can run 6 WJ200-15SF on that 16A or would I need to step down to the WJ200-07SF. I would like the group as it is right now. Any expansion of the fusebox would set me back more then I want to.. Perhaps this has been asked and answered more then once but I want to make sure before I build me a nice 6-dof platform but in the end unable to run it :-)
This would obviously have effect on the choice of motor!! But I think a rift 6dof would work with 0.75KW motors instead of 1.1KW ones. Can somebody give me an definitive answer on this issue? Or should I switch the VFD's on 1 by 1?!
I already have a quote for 1.1KW motors but I always can ask for a quote for the 0.75KW spec engines..
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Post by paulg100 on Nov 14, 2015 20:40:06 GMT
wow 40a main fuse is small. is this common for the Netherlands or is it an old house? UK normally has 100amps for a family sized home.
Ill be amazed if 16amp mcb is enough even for 6 x 0.75kw. id say as a bare minimum 32a mcb for 0.75, and maybe (Ill find out soon) 40a for 1.1kw, in an ideal world you want a dedicated circuit off its own MCB really.
you can easily change one of the 16amp for a 32amp mcb. Just check that the wire on the circuit for that mcb is sufficient size so that its safe, hard to imagine it wouldn't be. What circuit is your cooker/oven running on? this will usually be the biggest circuit in a normal house.
If your not sure then i think your best step before ordering expensive parts is to get an electrician out for some advice if you want to be sure and safe. firstly why is there only 40amp main fuse? can this be increased without re wiring? and also what size wire is running from the 16amp mcb's.
its really hard to advise these things without seeing and testing your house wiring as the current carrying capacity changes depending on size of cable, how long the cable run is, what structures or material the cable is running through or under and of course what else is on the same circuit.
if the main house fuse can be increased on the existing incoming wire then running some 10mm cable off a 40 or 50a mcb is not very expensive if you do it yourself, depending on your local electric regs.
or if you have several 16amp circuits, what about the possibility of running 3 motors of one and 3 off another if they run in close proximity to each other?
using thanos's guide above of vfd rating x 6 /3, wj200-007sf would be 40 amps, 015sf 60amps (for 1.5kw) both at full power which is never going to happen as all 6 motors wont run full power together.
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Post by mhensen on Nov 15, 2015 0:01:52 GMT
I think the 0.75KW would be my safest option.. I can run 2 lines of 16A as I have them both on the addict.. One group is my washer/dryer.. I should be able to live with that option .. or have a new 40A main fuse.. as we are only allowed a max of 4 groups on a single main fuse.. So I need a new Main fuse on the line in ..
I think a 40A main is pretty common in the Netherlands.. Just googled and 40A is pretty normal.. So I guess I need a new main fuse on the line and have the 40 amps split in 2 20A lines.
And moving to 0.55KW is on option but how would that perform!?! Will a 0.55KW mototr with a 60L1 reduction be adequate for a racing motion sim (no monitors, oculus based) What would be the max weight based on a 150mm or 2000mm lever ?! Somebody?!
I indeed need to get the figures right before I start ordering.. I will call an electrician for more info on the fuses in the meter cupboard! There are regulations the the main fuse can only be split in maximum of 3 sepereate groups.. otherwise you will need to split wit a new main fuse and then again a max of 3 groups..
But I am really looking for the right actual numbers.. so please anybody can tell me or measure there startup and running values of various kinds of VFD's..?!
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Post by mhensen on Nov 15, 2015 22:22:23 GMT
The more I read, the more I am getting less confident that I can run this 6 * 007SF inverters on my house power grid..
Does anybody can share their values for the fuses? and their main's fuse ? for the 007FS the fuse should be 20A but I only have 16A in my group.. but then I need 6 of them? how would that resolve? I can understand that powering up would have the biggest amp pull but how much would it draw when running at 75% power *6 ..
The smallest I guess I would be able to do is running on 0.55KW motors with the WJ200-004FS, but even that has a 10A value so based on the formule above it would be (6*10)/3=20A minimum .. but then again would that be enough for a racing sim.. I guess it could work if I keep the levers around 150mm?!
Any idea's on this matter are welcome..
(edit 16-11) As I have a main fuse of 40, I can ask for an extension.. but this will be 40A also.. I also have the choice of 380V but that would mean higher costs for the VFD. So I need a minimal value required for either the 007FS, How are you guys running these mean machines?
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Post by mhensen on Nov 16, 2015 20:37:33 GMT
Looks like I am in a conversation with myself :-) but this issue kept me thinking...and trying to find a solution in case of need!!!
But anyway.. I've found out that in 'older' houses..(<25 years) you'll have 1x40A as main power supply.. (please remind, it is the Netherlands) This 40A is all you will get!! No way you can upgrade this to 50 or higher..
All I can do now is get a 3*35A so I will need an upgrade in my power box.. luckily the main line coming in is already a 3phase cable.. so I need to let them install new fuses and a new counter.. Then I would like to reserve 1 phase for the sim.. and divide the rest of the 16a fuses over the 2 remaining phases..
This still means I will keep all in the save side and go for the 0.75Kw option..
But looking at the amperage of the WJ200 07FS is see it is 5A.. Based on the 'formula' of tronicgr is would be (6*5)/2 =15A. (0.75kW/1.1kW, 5.0A/6.0A, (CT / VT) 1x200-240V)
Looks to me that it should be possible to get that amount of amperage from my current network.. But I would likely need to spit the power over 2 fuses as everything here is fused at 16A per group.. So I think I can continue, but in case my fuses keep blowing up on me I can have my power upgraded.. That is a relieve that I needed, as I don't want to build me a kickass machine, but eventually is a static platform with some nice engines around it, because I haven't got the amps to get it moving :-)
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Post by paulg100 on Nov 16, 2015 21:35:28 GMT
also all motors will not be running at full power together and also if you buy eg 1400rpm motor with 60:1 gear you will be at around 24rpm. Others seem to be running at 15-20rpm so you will likely reduce via the AMC1280 so less power again, less than 5amps for sure. its good to have a backup plan for peace of mind though. now get building (well ordering parts at least, its taken me about 4months to get all the parts sorted!)
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Post by mhensen on Nov 16, 2015 22:38:06 GMT
I hope to have the quote for the 0.75KW + 60:1 =23.8 RPM by tomorrow.. The levers and rods I will make myself.. In Amsterdam there is an socalled 'Open Workshop' where you can use all kinds of machines and learn stuff like machining and welding..
I would like to do as much as possible myself and I have a 2DOF already.. so I can keep on racing as long as I am building :-) As soon as the motors get in I will start a buildlog and log all my progress!
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Post by clyevo on Nov 20, 2015 13:53:15 GMT
I hope to have the quote for the 0.75KW + 60:1 =23.8 RPM by tomorrow.. The levers and rods I will make myself.. In Amsterdam there is an socalled 'Open Workshop' where you can use all kinds of machines and learn stuff like machining and welding.. I would like to do as much as possible myself and I have a 2DOF already.. so I can keep on racing as long as I am building :-) As soon as the motors get in I will start a buildlog and log all my progress! i am actually interested in your experience in that "open workshop" please take some pictures and videos of your time there. Its a good concept i would like to see at my place locally.
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Post by mhensen on Nov 21, 2015 11:34:51 GMT
I will, meanwhile you can check openbarewerkplaats.nl/ although Dutch, google translate should help you with the Idea. As soon as I start I will take pictures!! The advantage is that all machines are there and they can help you to learn to operate the machinery
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