Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune

Mitch
Moderator

Posts: 65

Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune Aug 31, 2015 4:29:55 GMT

Quote

Post by Mitch on Aug 31, 2015 4:29:55 GMT

Hi everyone,
I'm wondering if these errors were resolved by someone out there.

I was able to run the static autotune on the WJ200-007S and 3/4 HP motor, but I still get 'over current' errors quite often (E02 and E03) - which of course fault and stop a motor from moving.

I have the accel and decel set quite high at 0.5 and H002 is set to 02 (to use autotune settings), H044 is set to 03 (sensorless vector SLV)

I've played with min motor speeds (using Fabi software) and I seem to get errors more often with the lower 'min motor speed' (1 vs 4).

I run autotune 'with movement' with the gearbox and arm attached, but rod disconnected from the upper platform.
Hitachi auto tune with movement will always end with a fail indication (setting the voltage lower at 200-220V) or with a error fault (if settings at rated 230V).

I imagine this error is partly due to the larger starting current, due to having the motor wired in delta.

Thoughts?

-Mitch

Last Edit: Aug 31, 2015 5:20:42 GMT by Mitch

riton39 Senior Member Posts: 337	Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune Aug 31, 2015 14:06:03 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by riton39 on Aug 31, 2015 14:06:03 GMT you are sure of the engine parameters, recorded in the drive?

Mitch
Moderator

Posts: 65

Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune Aug 31, 2015 18:03:41 GMT

Quote

Post by Mitch on Aug 31, 2015 18:03:41 GMT

The static autotune parameters were saved to the VFD after autotune.
These are the motor constants. I don't have any data from the motor manufacturer for these values.

I'm using these motors: www.worldwideelectric.net/product-files/pdfs/NAT34-18-56CB.pdf

When I get home I will check the value of B049. I think it should be set to VT. Default is CT.

I also noticed this in the WJ200 manual under the 'autotune' section:
"(Note 7) If auto-tuning is attempted in free V/f setting, auto-tuning will fail with error display."

Last Edit: Aug 31, 2015 18:18:54 GMT by Mitch

vicpopo
Moderator

Posts: 282

Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune Aug 31, 2015 19:11:53 GMT

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Post by vicpopo on Aug 31, 2015 19:11:53 GMT

I remember using fabi soft autotune feature , sometimes I had an overcurrent error .
But that happened sometimes not every time I was trying tôfind the pid settings.

It's strange because I had no load on the plateform , just the plateform weight .

Try may be to contact directly Fabi to report him this .

Mitch
Moderator

Posts: 65

Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune Aug 31, 2015 19:43:13 GMT

Quote

Post by Mitch on Aug 31, 2015 19:43:13 GMT

Aug 31, 2015 19:11:53 GMT vicpopo said:

I remember using fabi soft autotune feature , sometimes I had an overcurrent error .
But that happened sometimes not every time I was trying tôfind the pid settings.

It's strange because I had no load on the plateform , just the plateform weight .

Try may be to contact directly Fabi to report him this .

Oh, I should have been more clear - it's the VFD autotune feature that I mean.

I was using Fabi's software for manual motion and PID tuning after detecting the motor constants using Hitachi autotune. Its not Fabi's fault - must be on the VFD/motor side.

riton39
Senior Member

Posts: 337

Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune Aug 31, 2015 21:52:03 GMT

Quote

Post by riton39 on Aug 31, 2015 21:52:03 GMT

I think you need to repeat the parameter list and check the most important at first.
mains frequency, motor current.

once you have verified and you will be on the parametrage engine and its characteristics we can move forward on your problem.

not to mention the use of soft Fabi, when you press the AMC buttons up or down the engine that makes it too?

Last Edit: Aug 31, 2015 21:56:28 GMT by riton39

Mitch
Moderator

Posts: 65

Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune Aug 31, 2015 22:24:01 GMT via Tapatalk

Quote

Post by Mitch on Aug 31, 2015 22:24:01 GMT

Thanks for your replies Riton,
I'll post a picture of the hitachi software autotune page if you like. I'm in Canada, so supply is at 220V @ 60hz.

There is a bit of a language barrier - I'm not sure what you mean by the last sentence. Does it move when I press the buttons in Fabis software? Yes. I can pick min, mid, and max positions. If I keep speed low I can move to set points with few errors.

Mitch Moderator Posts: 65	Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune Sept 1, 2015 7:07:31 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Mitch on Sept 1, 2015 7:07:31 GMT Misc pics as promised. I didn't have time to get into it tonight, but I did connect to the VFD. When I select (IM(VT)) Autotune becomes unavailable (grayed out) Attachments:
	Last Edit: Sept 1, 2015 7:07:58 GMT by Mitch

clyevo
Full Member

Posts: 200

Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune Sept 1, 2015 13:52:28 GMT

Quote

Post by clyevo on Sept 1, 2015 13:52:28 GMT

Aug 31, 2015 4:29:55 GMT Mitch said:

Hi everyone,
I'm wondering if these errors were resolved by someone out there.

I was able to run the static autotune on the WJ200-007S and 3/4 HP motor, but I still get 'over current' errors quite often (E02 and E03) - which of course fault and stop a motor from moving.

I have the accel and decel set quite high at 0.5 and H002 is set to 02 (to use autotune settings), H044 is set to 03 (sensorless vector SLV)

I've played with min motor speeds (using Fabi software) and I seem to get errors more often with the lower 'min motor speed' (1 vs 4).

I run autotune 'with movement' with the gearbox and arm attached, but rod disconnected from the upper platform.
Hitachi auto tune with movement will always end with a fail indication (setting the voltage lower at 200-220V) or with a error fault (if settings at rated 230V).

I imagine this error is partly due to the larger starting current, due to having the motor wired in delta.

Thoughts?

-Mitch

1) do you get this error without the platform (load) or when connected to the gearbox or motor only
2) if connected to load what is your gearbox ratio and how much the platform weight
the reason i ask this is your motor is 0.5kw so i just thought your load is very important in this matter and like you said before your autotune with rotation is suppose to calculate motor inertia which may have something to do with current needed to turn motor and in turn moving the load
3) have u tried and do you get this error using V/F mode? because this is to rule out problem caused by auto-tuning and possibility that your motor parameter is falsified (deliberate or non deliberate, who knows). I have no doubt that the 6 wj200 is very good quality inverter.
4) can you post your motor parameter because i just learn that motor parameter is not the same for 380v in wye connection and 220v in delta connection? I ask for this in one of my thread but i can confirm this because my inverter supplier said the same

Last Edit: Sept 1, 2015 13:52:58 GMT by clyevo: typo

riton39
Senior Member

Posts: 337

Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune Sept 1, 2015 15:59:56 GMT

Quote

Post by riton39 on Sept 1, 2015 15:59:56 GMT

"autotune" is in charge ??
it must be done in charge? I do not think so.
the engine operates with 3 phase 220V.
not 380v.
the voltage and the delta connection is different things.
the voltage remains 220v.

if the mains voltage is measured at 230 V you can increase.

in your settings I do not see the current in A of your motor, this parameter would be a check in the drive.

this is a 0.75 kw 0.55 kw motor or ??

Mitch
Moderator

Posts: 65

Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune Sept 1, 2015 20:57:09 GMT

Quote

Post by Mitch on Sept 1, 2015 20:57:09 GMT

Sept 1, 2015 13:52:28 GMT clyevo said:

1) do you get this error without the platform (load) or when connected to the gearbox or motor only
2) if connected to load what is your gearbox ratio and how much the platform weight
the reason i ask this is your motor is 0.5kw so i just thought your load is very important in this matter and like you said before your autotune with rotation is suppose to calculate motor inertia which may have something to do with current needed to turn motor and in turn moving the load
3) have u tried and do you get this error using V/F mode? because this is to rule out problem caused by auto-tuning and possibility that your motor parameter is falsified (deliberate or non deliberate, who knows). I have no doubt that the 6 wj200 is very good quality inverter.
4) can you post your motor parameter because i just learn that motor parameter is not the same for 380v in wye connection and 220v in delta connection? I ask for this in one of my thread but i can confirm this because my inverter supplier said the same

Clyevo:
1 - Errors occur when moving platform to setpoints. The higher the motor speed the higher the error rate. If I try VFD autotune in CT mode 'with motion' is causes an error. With lower voltages I can get auto tune with motion to complete rotations, but it ends in a fail indication. Static autotune at 220V will complete, and provide different motor parameters than default hitachi motor.
2 - 60:1. Platform is not connected during auto tune with motion. Resistance of rod ends and platform weight is minimal.
3 - I have not tried 'free V/F'. Also 'SLV' is not available in VT mode.
4 - I'm not understanding this question. I assume the value of any parameters detected with autotune would be dependent on the input voltage.

Riton:
Mine is a 3/4 HP @ 60hz (0.55kW)
Full load 2.6A @ 230V
VFD output V will be dependent on mains V. (should be 220 mains, motor accepts 190-230)

-Mitch

Last Edit: Sept 1, 2015 21:00:32 GMT by Mitch: more info

riton39 Senior Member Posts: 337	Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune Sept 2, 2015 6:19:12 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by riton39 on Sept 2, 2015 6:19:12 GMT on your screen, I see for the motor: 0.75kw, so this is not good must be indicated if it is a 0.55kw 0.55kw. Auto tune should do this only with the engine, no weight and no element just above the engine.

clyevo
Full Member

Posts: 200

Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune Sept 2, 2015 7:29:21 GMT

Quote

Post by clyevo on Sept 2, 2015 7:29:21 GMT

Sept 1, 2015 20:57:09 GMT Mitch said:

Sept 1, 2015 13:52:28 GMT clyevo said:

1) do you get this error without the platform (load) or when connected to the gearbox or motor only
2) if connected to load what is your gearbox ratio and how much the platform weight
the reason i ask this is your motor is 0.5kw so i just thought your load is very important in this matter and like you said before your autotune with rotation is suppose to calculate motor inertia which may have something to do with current needed to turn motor and in turn moving the load
3) have u tried and do you get this error using V/F mode? because this is to rule out problem caused by auto-tuning and possibility that your motor parameter is falsified (deliberate or non deliberate, who knows). I have no doubt that the 6 wj200 is very good quality inverter.
4) can you post your motor parameter because i just learn that motor parameter is not the same for 380v in wye connection and 220v in delta connection? I ask for this in one of my thread but i can confirm this because my inverter supplier said the same

Clyevo:
1 - Errors occur when moving platform to setpoints. The higher the motor speed the higher the error rate. If I try VFD autotune in CT mode 'with motion' is causes an error. With lower voltages I can get auto tune with motion to complete rotations, but it ends in a fail indication. Static autotune at 220V will complete, and provide different motor parameters than default hitachi motor.
2 - 60:1. Platform is not connected during auto tune with motion. Resistance of rod ends and platform weight is minimal. 
3 - I have not tried 'free V/F'. Also 'SLV' is not available in VT mode.
4 - I'm not understanding this question. I assume the value of any parameters detected with autotune would be dependent on the input voltage. 

Riton:
Mine is a 3/4 HP @ 60hz (0.55kW)
Full load 2.6A @ 230V
VFD output V will be dependent on mains V. (should be 220 mains, motor accepts 190-230)

-Mitch

I have been reading the manual in your posts
This is my thoughts bases on my limited knowledge and i hope other members can add more

at the end of the day the most important thing to solve anything is to isolate the component that may cause the problem, in this case motor, inverter and even cables, and power supply stability

For inverter, determine whether it is SLV only problem or if V/F is can be used without acc/dec error

For motor, make sure the motor parameters input into the inverter is correct

For cables, make sure the running cable from inverter to motor is not too long and too wide (AWG below recommended) because can result in reduce voltage and thus higher current will be drawn into the motor to achieve the target torque

I imagine this error is partly due to the larger starting current, due to having the motor wired in delta.

Your inverter is higher capacity than your motor so i think it is not the problem of your motor drawing too much current but more of the settings that regulated overcurrent protection which may be most possibly related by numerous settings in your inverter and most likely have something to do with the error you encounter during auto-tuning.

1- What error/ error codes did u get from this (i meant during auto tuning):

If I try VFD autotune in CT mode 'with motion' is causes an error. With lower voltages I can get auto tune with motion to complete rotations, but it ends in a fail indication.

During auto-tuning set your acc/dec highest possible then you can change it back to tolerable settings afterwards. For deceleration you can reduce more after tuning if you install dc brake resistors.

2-
Your inverter WJ200-007sf is rated 1.1kw and 0.75kw for VT and CT respectively
I think you can only use CT mode, if according to this
This is quote from your manual:

"5) Proper motor constants are obtained only when the same size or one size lower motor is used.
If other size of motor is connected, proper values may not be obtained or auto-tuning operation
may not be completed. In this case, press STOP/RESET key, then error code will be displayed."

So your nameplate/parameter for motor is :
rated power : 3/4 (1/2) or 0.55kw (0.4kw)
rated frequency is : 60hz (50hz)
rated voltage : 230V (190V)
rated current : 2.6A (2.2A)
rated speed : 1800 / 4 (1500 / 4)

If this parameter above is correct you can try this settings:
H003 to 0.4kw (your selection is ....0.2/0.4/0.75/1.5.....) -there is no 0.55kw option*
H004 to 4 pole
A003 to 50hz
A082 to 200v (your selection is 200v-400v) - should be 190V according to your motor parameter (you can put V/F gain to 95)

* so all your parameter should be based on 0.4kw, that will affect the parameter H33 Motor Constant IO (no-load current) which may have something to do with getting the over current during acc/dec

From your manual:

Auto-tuning with motor stop (H001=01)
Motor does not rotate while auto-tuning. If rotating motor could give harm to your
application, use this mode. But the motor constant I0 (no-load current) and J
(inertia) are not measured and remain unchanged. (I0 can be monitored in 50Hz of
V/f operation.)

Unchanged is meaning they will use default hitachi motor values for H33 Motor Constant IO (no-load current)
So hopefully your rotation auto tuning would not fail to produce this parameter.

I think the parameters detected by autotune is unique to individual motor because the windings is different on rotor and stator so that resistance passing through it is different and thus current passing though it is also different. The inertia of the motor differ according to construction of the rotor and the load.

3-

I've played with min motor speeds (using Fabi software) and I seem to get errors more often with the lower 'min motor speed' (1 vs 4).

Either you rotation auto tuning or only able to do static auto-tuning it is also important to adjust the motor constant base on your observation in your application (with load):

(2) If you cannot obtain the desired characteristics from the motor driven under the
SLV control, readjust the motor constants according to the symptom, as described in
the table below.

Note 1) When driving a motor of which the capacity is one class lower than the inverter,
adjust the torque limit (b041 to b044) so that the value “α” calculated by the
expression below does not exceed 200%. Otherwise, the motor may ~~not~~ be burnt.
α = “torque limit” x (inverter capacity) / (motor capacity)
(Example) When the inverter capacity is 0.75kW and the motor capacity is 0.4kW,
the torque limit value is calculated as follows, based on the
assumption that the value α should be 200%:
Torque limit (b041 to b044) = α x (motor capacity) / (inverter capacity)

= 2.0 x (0.4kW)/(0.75kW) = 106%

so you should set the torque limit to 106%

4-
However if your autotune fail static or rotation, can you post the history of error code pertaining to the autotuning session
Can you post the parameters generated by autotune here, especially curious is the H33 data (motor constant IO)

Last Edit: Sept 2, 2015 8:35:42 GMT by clyevo

Mitch
Moderator

Posts: 65

Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune Sept 3, 2015 6:01:34 GMT

Quote

Post by Mitch on Sept 3, 2015 6:01:34 GMT

Sept 2, 2015 6:19:12 GMT riton39 said:

on your screen, I see for the motor: 0.75kw, so this is not good must be indicated if it is a 0.55kw 0.55kw.
Auto tune should do this only with the engine, no weight and no element just above the engine.

Sorry I was misleading!
I just used the snipping tool to grab an example of the autotune page - I can select 0.55 kW
Please clarify 'element'?

Attachments:

Mitch
Moderator

Posts: 65

Hitachi WJ200 Over current errors and autotune Sept 3, 2015 6:37:48 GMT

Quote

Post by Mitch on Sept 3, 2015 6:37:48 GMT

Sept 2, 2015 7:29:21 GMT clyevo said:

If this parameter above is correct you can try this settings:
H003 to 0.4kw (your selection is ....0.2/0.4/0.75/1.5.....) -there is no 0.55kw option*
H004 to 4 pole
A003 to 50hz
A082 to 200v (your selection is 200v-400v) - should be 190V according to your motor parameter (you can put V/F gain to 95)

Thanks for taking the time to put together your detailed response - you make some interesting points.

There shouldn't be any issues with the cables and voltage drop - they're probably as short as possible and 14AWG.

I kind of agree with you on the point that the over current settings could be an issue, which was why I was suggesting it was a result of the delta wiring vs wye. Delta will produce more torque but also draw more current. Also was looking at CT vs VT modes.

I'll post H33 for you after I do an autotune.

I see what you're getting at with adjusting gain and protection parameter, but those autotune settings are not right. I checked that I can set the following through the hitachi software, so I shouldn't have any issues there.

H003 can be set to .55Kw (see pic)
H004 4 pole
A003 to 60 Hz
A082 (selection available is 200-240V)

I'm going to go over everything again. It's entirely possible that I selected .75kW for autotune, or made some other parameter oversight. I just can't recall... I did this months ago when I had much more time on my hands. I now have a 5 month old and I'm kind of working on it intermittently. I should have a good chunk of time this weekend and I plan to go through autotune and all parameters/settings on all 6 VFD's again. If I'm still having issues I'll try the SLV, V/F and VT/IM modes. I'll post the results for everyone.

Thanks!